[Rich]

Hi all,

Pretty brand new to this forum (and my Magnum) and having some transmission problems. Had to have my 05 R/T with 60,000 miles towed to my buddies shop today. Yesterday evening I noticed a high pitch "whining" sound when I would accelerate. Almost as if the car had a supercharger. It would happen in neutral as well as drive, after about 2,000 RPM. I thought it might be the serpentine belt or the belt tensioner causing the sound. However, on the way to my Buddy's shop to have him listen, I noticed the car losing power when I was accelerating and I pulled over just in time for it to completely lose motive power due to the transmission. Sure enough, it dumped about a pint of trans fluid on the ground and I had to have it towed. As well, it would not shift in any gears, nor show the numbered icons in the dash display when manual-shifted side to side.

Question is, is the whole trans shot, or just just the torque converter or what? Anyone have any similar instances as this with the Hemi transmission? From my understanding, these transmissions are sealed and can only be accessed by pulling the pan without being able to check fluid levels from the non-existent dipstick? Furthermore, they are a Mercedes design as well right? My experience is all with the 918 and the 727. My friend who is my mechanic is a classic Mopar guy as well who knows his stuff, but doesn't have much experience with the new Mopes. Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

-- Rich

 

[Fireman2118]

There is a tube to check the level of the transmission fluid, just no dipstick. A miller tool or equivalent is needed. know that the fluid level is dependant on fluid temperature.



The W5A580 (NAG1) transmission is a Mercedes transmission correct. To know what's going on will require investigtion. It would really help to know exactly where the fluid came from. (Where on the transmission)

 

[Rich]

Thanks for the reply Fireman. I will have to ask my Bud when he gets it up on the lift. I had to leave it at the shop for him to check out tomorrow. Hard to see under the car on the ground or the flatbed, but it was definitely at the front of the bell housing or under the pan itself.

I had a 70's Dart at one point that had a rubber seal go bad in the input shaft right behind the torque converter. The car lost power and dumped all of it's fluid, but had no shavings in the pan. Changed the seal, got a rebuilt torque converter and it ran fine after that. I can only hope it's something so simple.

 

[Rich]

So it looks like the fluid drained out of the electrical sensor socket. When more fluid was added, the car was mobile enough to drive in the shop, although the high "whining" sound was still there. Next step is to drop the pan. I understand from a couple of tidbits I could find in threads that the W5A580's have had issues with the sensors leaking? Anyone have any similar problems? Also, has anyone installed a dipstick in this transmission for ease of maintenance? I have a '03 45RFE (Trans behind Ram Hemis) that is electronically controlled and has a dipstick. What gives? Dealer enrichment?

Also...dumb question. Is there a tutorial on this site to add some photos to ones profile using a mac? Thanks ahead of time...

 

[05 rt]

Let me know what you find out I too have the whinning sound I always thought It was the serpentine belt I still have a powertrain warranty on my car so it would be nice to get it fixed under warranty if it is a problem

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Fireman2118]

The electrical connector is known to have "O" ring problems causing leakage. There was a TSB (technical service bulletin) out on it back in '05. It's possible that yours is bad too. That's where I'd start. It's a $30.00 part. Order the connector from Chrysler. I believe the number is 68021352AA

Get the car up so you can work underneath it.

On the front of the transmission, above the right front corner of the pan, you'll see the electrical connector (photo #1)

You'll see the yellow "locking ring". rotate the "locking ring" counter clockwise so that the harness (plug) can be removed from the connector.

Pull the plug out of the connector. Inside, you'll see a 7mm hex nut that secures the connector (photo #2) to the connector plate. (photo #3)

Loosen the 7mm hex nut. This screw can not be removed, you'll know when it's loose enough. Now pull on the yellow "locking ring" to remove the connector.

Once the connector is removed, wipe the inside of the connector plate clean and insert the new connector. There are 13 pins in there......Make sure to get them lined up with the new connector! Tighten up the hex nut SNUG ONLY. DO NOT OVER-TIGHTEN or the threaded collar inside the connector plate will break off. If this happens, you'll need to replace the whole connector plate.

Once the 7mm hex nut has been snugged, plug the wire harness back in and secure the "locking ring".....DONE!



You may see a little fluid come out but it won't be much.

Remember to have the fluid level checked after repairs. The fluid level is temperature dependant. See chart below for appropriate level per temperature.


#1

#2

#3

 

[Rich]

Dude You Rock Man. Thanks. I'll pass this on and see where we're at. There were no shavings in the pan (Thank God) but some white foamy fluid, that appears to be water. Not sure how that could have gotten in there. Looks like we're going to replace the sensor's cup with the two gaskets and install a trans kit. Hopefully the whining sound will then settle down. Fingers crossed! Thanks again for the help...

 

[Fireman2118]

Dude You Rock Man. Thanks. I'll pass this on and see where we're at. There were no shavings in the pan (Thank God) but some white foamy fluid, that appears to be water. Not sure how that could have gotten in there. Looks like we're going to replace the sensor's cup with the two gaskets and install a trans kit. Hopefully the whining sound will then settle down. Fingers crossed! Thanks again for the help...

There was also a TSB for a water getting into the transmission. (see below) The seal at the base of the dip stick leaked, allowing water into the fluid. Looks like you're a 2 time winner .....Lol J/K. Use some RTV sealant around the base of the tube to block future water intrusion. To be honest, many of us with the NAG1 have experienced these issues already.

FYI - You may have to flush the transmission fluid 2-3 times to get all the water out. As litle as .5% can cause a shudder. Replace the filter as well!



TSB: 21-011-05
SUBJECT:
NAG1 (W5A580) Transmission - Shudder When Torque Converter Clutch Engages
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves thoroughly flushing the NAG1 (W5A580) transmission of any water
contamination, replacing the transmission filter, and applying RTV sealant around the base
of the transmission fill tube to prevent water intrusion past the fill tube seal.
MODELS:
2005 - **2006** (LX) 300/Magnum/Charger
2005 (WK) Grand Cherokee
NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles (WK w/3.7L, LX w/ 5.7L, or LX AWD w/3.5L)
equipped with a NAG1 transmission (sales code DGJ). For LX vehicles, this
bulletin applies to 2005 and 2006 vehicles built prior to May 13, 2005 (MDH
0513XX). **For WK vehicles, this bulletin applies to vehicles built prior to
June 03, 2005 (MDH 0603XX)**.
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
The customer may experience a transmission shudder when shifts occur. The shudder is
most noticeable with partial application of the torque converter clutch in 3rd and 4th gear.
DIAGNOSIS:
If the customer experiences the condition perform the Repair Procedure.
NOTE: This condition may occur when only a small 0.5% concentration of water is
present in the automatic transmission fluid. It will be very important to
ensure that the transmission and torque converter is thoroughly flushed of
any water and other possible contaminants.

 

[Rich]

Thanks for the info! Going to do all of the above and may do another fluid/filter service on it again in a few months just to keep it happy. Any other potentially serious FSB's on the '05 RT's I should know about? Also, are there actual "Factory Service Manuals" for these cars with repair instructions with tons of exploded diagrams, like for the old Mopars? Thanks again for all the info.

 

[Fireman2118]

Thanks for the info! Going to do all of the above and may do another fluid/filter service on it again in a few months just to keep it happy. Any other potentially serious FSB's on the '05 RT's I should know about? Also, are there actual "Factory Service Manuals" for these cars with repair instructions with tons of exploded diagrams, like for the old Mopars? Thanks again for all the info.

You mean like this?

or like this?

Amazon.com or any auto parts store.

 

[Rich]

Thanks for those. Going to get 'em anyway. I like the Chilton and Hayes ones ok, but I really like the FSM's they used to do in the old days. Always seemed more complete and in depth and from the actual engineers.

Anyway, kind of the least of my worries as of today. Went and picked up the car from the shop yesterday afternoon and it ran fine and the "whining" noise had gone away. Our suspicion was that was due to a low fluid level. Once fluid was added, it went away.

However, after driving the car about 50 miles total yesterday and putting it thru it's paces with manual shifting/downshifting, I get home to the driveway and guess what. "Drive" won't engage and I park it for the night with no motive power again. This morning however, I start it up and the trans is fine. It moves like nothing happened. So, I take it for a 5 minute drive and everything is fine. Again, however, as I go to park in the driveway, "Drive" won't engage again. So I put it in "Park" and go back to "Drive" and it does engage. Bad sign if you ask me. My friend and Mechanic suspects there could be some slight water damage to either the Valve Body or to a Solenoid which is causing something internally to stick or function improperly. I'm waiting to see if it will work again when it's cold. There was a small amount of white residue on the pan when it was pulled which no doubt came thru the base of the filler tube. I'm hoping that didn't wreak havoc on the entire innards. Yikes.

I've also heard there is a plastic part somewhere in the shifter that, if it fails the car will not engage in gear right? Are you familiar with those specific symptoms? I can only hope it's something so simple. In the mean time I've ordered one of these dipsticks to at least be able to monitor the tranny fluid level without having to go to the Dealer.

NAG1 722.6 WA580 W5A580 Mercedes Transmission Dipstick Tool Dodge X-9336A | eBay

Thanks -- Rich

 

[Rich]

Did some more experimentation in the driveway, and although trying not to be negative, things are not looking good. If the car is idling with my foot on the brake and going thru the gears from "Park" to R", "N", and "Drive" the transmission is only engaging half of the time. That is, I can only feel the "bump" of power to the rear wheels half of the time, and a few times it was delayed by a few seconds. It seems as if the shifter is not communicating with the transmission, or the trans itself is having difficulty engaging it's commands. When put into "Drive" and it does not engage, the autoshifting numbers are not appearing on the dash. Likewise, on the shifts where it works, everything is normal. Any bright ideas Fireman, or anyone else for that matter experienced anything similar? Thanks.

 

[Fireman2118]

I suppose it's possible that you've damaged the transmission in some way. Did you flush the transmission several times? These transmissions are very finicky when it comes to fluid level or being contaminated. Do Not try to cut corners. These are nothing like the transmissions Chrysler used to put in their cars. These Mercedes parts need to be taken care of in specific ways. The fluid level needs to be right. That means per the chart above. (specific level at specific temperature) Sounds like the fluid may still be low. Also, I've seen issues like this when the filter gets plugged or contaminated. If you didn't install a new filter, do so. The last things you want to do when all the work is done is fill with new, clean, ATF+4 Mopar transmission fluid and a brand new filter.

The shifter assembly is mechanical but rely on electronic signals to operate properly. It could be a shifter issue. Another thing is the TCM (transmission control module) that is mounted up under the dash to the left of the steering wheel. They can go bad.

If it were my car, I'd start with what's known...Water...You probably still have water contamination. It possible that the clutches have been permanently damaged by water.

That plastic part you are referring to is the parking lockout mechanism. If that was your issue, the shifter would be stuck in park. It has nothing to do with the transmission engaging into or out of the gears.

The transmission fluid dip stick (or lack of) isn't really an issue. Once the transmission has been serviced and the fluid level full, there's no where for the fluid to go. It doesn't get burned up like oil. If there's no fluid leak, the transmission fluid level is fine.

 

[envyus]

hey hope you found what you was looking for . all these guys know there magnum stuff but i know I had the same thing happen to me I had that noise and well it was not good at all .... long story short had to changethe tranny and on top of all that Mercedes oil for the tranny is needed . at the end of the day i had to use my rims $ on the tranny all 2gs :-( but dealer wanted 4gs lol

 

[Rich]

Thanks A LOT for the advice guys. Information is King.

Well, the service that was done yesterday did flush the transmission, install a trans service kit which included changing the filter and gasket, and replacing the faulty gaskets on the sensor with a entire new unit, as well as fill it with new ATF+4. And when the transmission decides to engage, the car drives as normal as every other day. No bogging, shuddering, or power loss slippage like when the bands start to go on an automatic. Just this intermittent behavior of not wanting to go into gear. I'm guessing that would be more of a solenoid or valve body issue?

Also my suspicion about the fluid level being perhaps still too low is due to the fact that my guy had to get a dipstick that was for a Mercedes with the same transmission and use that one to fill it and check it. However, even if it's "full" after a service, by driving the car through all the gears, and at full temperature including overdrive, it can still end up being a quart low once all of the drums and torque converter are filled out (based on my limited experience with new/rebuilt transmissions). At home, I have no way of checking the level without a dipstick, hence the one off ebay that I bought for $13. BTW, the guy who fabricates them said he's now sold over 500 of 'em to both Mercedes and Dodge owners.

That being said, I'm not sure how the fluid level/temperature chart is supposed to work? Is there a tool that can simultaneously read fluid level and the temperature of the fluid, or am I misunderstanding the concept? Or is this a proprietary "Dealer Only" procedure?

At this point, there is a legit place here in the Bay Area that will rebuild it...for about $4,000. Yikes.

Thanks Again Fellas -- Rich

 

[Fireman2118]

I don't know who's doing your work but I have a suggestion. I'm close to you. I live down the Peninsula in Foster City. Ditos Motors in SSF, on Old Mission Rd. works on my car. I let no one else touch it. Maybe they can help you out. At least they'd be another option for you. Give them a call (Robert & David Dito - 650-991-0400) Tell them Bill with the Black Magnum R/T sent you.

 

[Rich]

Ok. Cool. I will contact these guys and see if they have any suggestions. Thanks Bill. BTW, if I do have to go into the transmission, did the Dito guys do your Paramount Torque Converter and Valve Body install? What differences do you notice with those mods? Thinkin' ahead and trying for a positive spin on the situation if the tranny has to come out!

 

[focused313]

I so badly want to drop my car off at Fireman's house and let him go at it.

 

[envyus]

let me know when ill send mine as well lol ..... on another note what dip stick off of ebay did you order ? i would like to order to check my level as well thanks

I so badly want to drop my car off at Fireman's house and let him go at it.

 

[Fireman2118]

Ok. Cool. I will contact these guys and see if they have any suggestions. Thanks Bill. BTW, if I do have to go into the transmission, did the Dito guys do your Paramount Torque Converter and Valve Body install? What differences do you notice with those mods? Thinkin' ahead and trying for a positive spin on the situation if the tranny has to come out!

Yeah, they've installed my torque converter, my stage 2 valvebody, 3.91 limited slip differential, new half shafts and drive line. They installed my Wilwood big brake kit, they've installed heads, 2 cams (1st wasn't big enough....lol), oil pump, timing set.....Yada, yada, yada. They've done all the custom tuning on my car. They have a 4 wheel Dynomite inertia dynomometer. They are full performance service!!

You want a Diablosport Intune or Trinity tuner/programmer, they have them on site.

A torque converter can get you into your powerband quicker for better takeoffs and acceleration. A stage 2 valve body can speed up and firm up the shifting. With the valve body, the more aggressively you drive, the firmer the shifts.

If you think you might add more power, you might wait to get a torque converter. The optimum stall speed changes with the amount of power.