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Discussion Starter #1
i was wondering what you guys opinoins and expierences are with superchargers on the 3.5 are, wich is the best supercharger for our cars with the most HP gain, i plan on getting a supercharger for my 07 this spring, price isnt really a concern to me under about 7 grand
 

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Shaolin Ch'uan Fa
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Chutsk10 (Andrei) has a supercharged 3.5 and I believe it makes about stock 5.7 power, maybe a little more. I'm sure he'll post up and answer any questions you have.
 

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What kind of tuning would be involved after installing a super charger ? Is it just bolt on or do you have to tear into the engine ? I'm just curious.
Installation goes as deep as removing the intake plenum and the fuel rails so the fuel injectors and spark plugs can be changed. It's not a very difficult installation and could be considered "bolt on". In terms of tuning, you would need a Diablo product and some hours invested in an experienced tuner, preferably on a dyno but it can be done through data logs as well.

Still working on my response to the original question, it has kind of turned into a short story :S
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Lol no rush I thank you for your help BC I've looked at a few different superchargers and they seem to all promise the same thing I'd rather you take your time and educate me other than just going and spending 4 or 5 grand and not being satisfied in my purchase
 

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I will preface this by saying I am not an expert! I have, however, done a lot of research on superchargers for the 3.5L while purchasing, installing, tuning and maintaining mine. I guess that counts for something.

Performance:

The 3.5L engine is pretty stout and the stock internals/ drive train have proven to handle up to 10PSI of boost without upgrades. At 10PSI you can expect to increase your power by 100-120rwhp depending on your set-up and tune. There will be increased engine stress and wear but any reduction in engine life has yet to be determined. I installed my kit at around 60,000 miles and rolled over 100,000 miles this year. She is still running strong. If you want to be more conservative you can run less boost, some kits run at 5-6PSI, which will provide about half the gains.

My SXT is currently at 290rwhp, 120rwhp over stock and slightly more than a stock R/T (roughly 270rwhp). It’s an 05’ with the 4 speed transmission so the power transfer to the wheels is a little less efficient than the 5 speed. Most supercharged SXT’s with the 5 speed transmission are running around 300-320rwhp (depending on additional modifications).

Torque gains are significant, about 90-100 ftlb, but an R/T will still have you beat off the line. If you have a 5 speed transmission you can swap out the rear gears to add some more kick.

Kits:

Modern Muscle
I run the kit developed by Modern Muscle. It uses a simple, common sense design, with quality, robust parts (namely, the Vortech V3 head unit). This is the only kit I can personally recommend but sadly it is no longer available. You might be able to find one used, you might be able to convince Modern Muscle to create another one or you can replicate it by collecting your own parts and fabricating the mounting bracket (which was really the only proprietary component of the kit).

Tidal Wave
The next kit of intrigue, to me at least, is the TidalWave kit. This kit looks promising because it is more or less an exact replica of the Modern Muscle kit. To my knowledge, it is created and sold by an individual, not a company, whom with no doubt copied the Modern Muscle design.

I can’t comment on this kit from experience but I will say it’s worth investigating. The biggest concerns to me would be the quality of the rebuilt “Powerdyne” head units and what components are included in the kit as several key items (injectors, MAP sensor, blow off valve etc.) are missing from the kit descriptions. It should also be noted that the advertised gains appear to be slightly inflated but not far off from what you could expect.

Whiplash/ TKT
I have no personal experience with this kit but there are far too many red-flags from the advertisements and photos that lead me to stay clear from this one.

They are attempting to utilize a roots type blower in a centrifugal blower application, which is a little unorthodox, and aside from the Eaton blower the remainder of the components appear flimsy and cheap. In addition, they piggy back the blower belt off of the accessory belt (instead of integrating them together) and the blower belt is tensioned with a pulley that is bolted into place once the belt is in place. The lack of a proper spring loaded tensioner on this belt leads me to believe it will be prone to jump from time to time.

The photographs on the site are inconsistent, displaying different kits and components, and the wall of text is mostly inaccurate. We also had Whiplash as a supporting vendor here for a limited time but their inabilities to answer simple questions quickly lead to their departure.

Tune:

The biggest component to any forced induction modification is the tuning, which for our cars is done through a Diablo product (Predator, inTune or Trinity).

Some of the kits mentioned above come with a custom tune, however, I would strongly recommend a custom dyno tune or custom e-mail tune (through the use of data logging) once the installation is complete. All of our cars are slightly different and react to modifications in a different way. The tunes they develop for their R&D car may not be ideal for yours. They will most likely be okay for casual driving, to get you to a dyno safely, or be a basis for e-mail tuning but for optimum performance and reliability have the tune modified to suit your specific installation.

Additional Components:

With any supercharged application there are a few additional components you want to consider.

First, is a way to reduce your intake air temperature. This can be done through the use of methanol injection or an intercooler. None of the mentioned kits are designed with an intercooler and so most installations opt to use the methanol injection since it is cheap and easy to install. One fellow on LXF custom fabricated an intercooler to work with his Modern Muscle S/C since it is a more consistent system than methanol injection. Either system will reduce your intake air temperature allowing you to squeeze more power out of the system while running more safely. I highly recommend one of the above systems if you are running at 10PSI.

Second, is a way to monitor your system. At minimum I recommend a wide band AFR sensor and a boost sensor. In fact, if you want to complete any e-mail tuning through data-logs you will need to install a wide band AFR sensor. With these two sensors, and gauges in the cabin, I have a good indication if all the components are working properly. I keep these gauges out of sight (in the sunglass holder) during daily driving but if something feels off, or I am really heavy on the pedal I will monitor them to ensure everything is under control. There are several companies that make sensors/gauges. I use a device produced by Zietronix which allows me to monitor my air/fuel ratio, boost, engine exhaust temperature and one auxiliary item (which I uses to monitor my methanol injection flow) all on the same gauge. In addition, I can plug this device into my computer and log each sensor against engine RPM’s which is ideal for e-mail tuning in conjunction with the Diablo data-logs.

Lastly, if you go with forced induction you will want to look into upgrading your exhaust and your brakes. At minimum, a nice cat-back exhaust but it wouldn’t hurt to upgrade the headers/mid-pipes as well. R/T brakes provide an inexpensive improvement. A big brake kit is even better but much more expensive.

Links:

Chutsk10's MM Installation (Meth Injection)

Clayman's MM Installation (Intercooled)
 

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Okay so I got a little carried away but I wrote that with the intent of referring people here next time the question is asked.

As I said, I am no expert so if anyone has other information to add, questions to ask, corrections to point out please speak up!

Lol no rush I thank you for your help BC I've looked at a few different superchargers and they seem to all promise the same thing I'd rather you take your time and educate me other than just going and spending 4 or 5 grand and not being satisfied in my purchase
What kits were you looking at?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Why don't any of these kits come with an inter cooler?? U mentioned someone on the Lx forum fabed one up just curious why these shops that supply the kits don't include one,,, and with the kit I showed you what else would I have to put into the ride I'd like to achieve 350rwhp if its possible
 

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price isnt really a concern to me under about 7 grand
My SXT is currently at 290rwhp, 120rwhp over stock and slightly more than a stock R/T (roughly 270rwhp).
I'm not trying to troll or deter you from your endeavor.
I understand the need to make ones ride better, but if you're willing to drop that much (7k) I would think selling what you have and getting an R/T would give you a better platform to build upon.
 

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Shaolin Ch'uan Fa
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I'm not trying to troll or deter you from your endeavor.
I understand the need to make ones ride better, but if you're willing to drop that much (7k) I would think selling what you have and getting an R/T would give you a better platform to build upon.
It makes a better platform if that's what you want!

You built a 3.5 and somebody says......why not an R/T and then you spend the money on an R/T and someone says....Why not a 6.1 SRT? Then you have a 6.1, spend money and then someone says.....Why not a 392?.........and ....a 426?......So on....So on.... When does it stop?

Besides, if you see Andrei's car, you know why he kept it.
 

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I'm not trying to troll or deter you from your endeavor.
I understand the need to make ones ride better, but if you're willing to drop that much (7k) I would think selling what you have and getting an R/T would give you a better platform to build upon.
It's a valid point, and sometimes it's the most efficient solution but it depends on the situation.

My SXT was my first significant car purchase. I made it at the age of 22 with a loan from my parents. At the time, the price of the R/T was still 8-9 grand more than an SXT so it wasn't in my budget. At first I was content with the power and over the first year or two of owning it I did a substantial amount of modding, suspension, rims, audio, bolt on performance etc. When I started to consider forced induction I worked out the cost of my options and when factoring in the money/time I would lose on the modifications I had already made, and the loss/cost of a trade in the S/C was more economical.

Additionally, some people don't care about the money at all and enjoy the challenge of adding significant performance to their car. While the V8 may be a better platform there are people doing great things to the V6, the fastest one running in the high 11's I believe (faster than a stock SRT8).
 

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Why don't any of these kits come with an inter cooler?? U mentioned someone on the Lx forum fabed one up just curious why these shops that supply the kits don't include one
My guess is because the R&D to fabricate an inter-cooler would drive the price of the kit much higher, and these kit's already have a hard time selling at their current price point.

Methanol Injection accomplishes the same task of an inter-cooler, to reduce the intake air temperature, at a fraction of the cost. The potential problem with methanol injection is that it relies on electrical/computer components which are prone to failure, opposed to an inter-cooler which is purely mechanical.

A methanol system typically consists of a reservoir, a pump, a solenoid, a nozzle and a controller. The solenoid is an electronic valve placed close to the nozzle that prevents the line from draining back to the reservoir while methanol is not being sprayed. By doing this, it ensures that methanol begins spraying as soon as the pump is activated. The controller is connected to a vacuum line and based on how you set it will being spraying at a certain level of boost and ramp up as the boost increases to it's maximum. The controller turns on/off the pump and solenoid.

As you can see there are a lot of components to rely on and failure of these components while you are at WOT could cause serious damage. I added an optional "failsafe" to my system which is placed just after the pump. It is essentially a flow meter that detects any under or overflow. It is wired to a gauge in the cabin which I can monitor, and to a red LED on my dash. If the Red LED trips when I am at WOT I know to let off immediately and that should prevent any serious damage.

Although prone to failure, a quality kit should not fail if properly installed/maintained. Mine has been running smooth since day one and I feel confident in my system and safeguard to not worry about it leading to any kind of damage.

and with the kit I showed you what else would I have to put into the ride I'd like to achieve 350rwhp if its possible
Aside from the S/C and meth injection or inter-cooling, you should look to upgrade your exhaust. A set of headers, high flow cats and dual exhaust will give maximum performance but even a dual exhaust from the cat's back will be greatly beneficial. Even with this it will be hard to hit the 350rwhp mark with forced induction alone.

If you really have money to burn you can look into swapping your heads/cams as well. With the heads you can start changing the compression ratio to maximize the performance of the S/C but this starts to go beyond my knowledge. You can talk to Stu at Inertia Motorsports and see what he recommends. I have yet to see a 3.5 with a S/C, heads and cams but I imagine you would easily result in the 350-390rwhp range.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I'm not sure where I read it at but I saw somewhere that you get more HP out of the 3.5 supercharged with single exhaust over dual exhaust doesn't make much sense to me but has anyone else heard that before,,,, 350rwhp or not my main goal is low 13's 1/4 mile what does your car run with your mods?

And to the why not trade it in for an RT its simple I wanna be able to beat a hemi with my v6 BC nothing pisses someone off more than getting beat by a v6 lol
 

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I'm not sure where I read it at but I saw somewhere that you get more HP out of the 3.5 supercharged with single exhaust over dual exhaust doesn't make much sense to me but has anyone else heard that before,,,, 350rwhp or not my main goal is low 13's 1/4 mile what does your car run with your mods?
There is always a debate on single vs. dual exhaust on a stock V6 but I haven't seen the debate extend to S/C applications. I'd be curious to see if anyone has done any testing to back up the claims, but until then dual exhaust makes more sense to me. Even when I ran true duals before the S/C I gained top end performance with only a minor loss on the low end.


The S/C should put you in the low 14's high 13's and the low-mid 13's can be reached with some other modifications. If you are actually running on the track, you would benefit from a high stall torque converter and swapping out your rear gears (you will need the 5-speed NAG1 transmission to do either). Clayman on LXF put in a Getrag LSD 3.73 and I recall him saying it was "one of the best things [he] ever did". I believe his best 1/4 is around 13.22 (on regular tires). Add a shot of nitrous and you can hit the 12's easily.

I have never ran my car on the track, to be honest, I am more of an (aggressive) cruiser than a racer.

PS: I just noticed that there is finally a commercially available turbo for the 3.5L. It is designed for the Challenger but I'm sure it can be modified to fit the Magnum. They are claiming high 12's with it. RDP Store - V6 Challenger RDP Turbo Kit
 

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Tidal Wave
The next kit of intrigue, to me at least, is the TidalWave kit. This kit looks promising because it is more or less an exact replica of the Modern Muscle kit. To my knowledge, it is created and sold by an individual, not a company, whom with no doubt copied the Modern Muscle design.

I can’t comment on this kit from experience but I will say it’s worth investigating. The biggest concerns to me would be the quality of the rebuilt “Powerdyne” head units and what components are included in the kit as several key items (injectors, MAP sensor, blow off valve etc.) are missing from the kit descriptions. It should also be noted that the advertised gains appear to be slightly inflated but not far off from what you could expect.

The TWSC comes with everything you need to get up and running .It was developed and tested by dodge V6 enthusiast.(no MM kit used or harmed during development)
Included:map sensor,fuel injectors,blow off valve, expansion tank.boost gauge,spark plugs,vacuum block,air filter,serpentine belt,idler pulley. clamps,hoses fittings.Kit is preassembled into five main components.Supercharger,intake assembly,discharge assembly,vacuum block,expansion, tank relocation.
Base tune included.
Not included flash tuner,water methanol injection kit,air fuel gauge.
All HP gains are documented with dyno graphs.
The units are rebuilt with all new internal gears,high speed ceramic bearings
 
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