If the tension struts even looked ripped, much less are visibly so, I would do those first.

 

I was thinking that this would be the next step. But, would that cause the inconsistent vibration that I am getting?

 

This is gonna sound weird but I just went thru this with the old Caravan.... Shook like crazy, installed new rotors and pads, was fine for about 5 miles then was worse AND loud... I went back to my shop, removed the calipers and found two little notches on the caliper carrier.... they were where the hooks on the pads ride....I filed them smooth so the pad would slide without any "bump" feeling....reinstalled the pads and calipers and they are perfect... I think the "notches" were causing the pad to hand up, giving the caliper a little space to shake.... does that make any sense to you?? I really had to clean the road grime off the carrier to see the very slight notches......

 

This is gonna sound weird but I just went thru this with the old Caravan.... Shook like crazy, installed new rotors and pads, was fine for about 5 miles then was worse AND loud... I went back to my shop, removed the calipers and found two little notches on the caliper carrier.... they were where the hooks on the pads ride....I filed them smooth so the pad would slide without any "bump" feeling....reinstalled the pads and calipers and they are perfect... I think the "notches" were causing the pad to hand up, giving the caliper a little space to shake.... does that make any sense to you?? I really had to clean the road grime off the carrier to see the very slight notches......

I'm not sure that I know what you notches you are referring to. Have any pictures?

 

nope.... the pad has a couple of hooks that ride against the frame and caliper mounts too....it is the place where the hooks slide.... and to be honest I have not done the Mags brakes so I am not even sure they are the same as the Caravan but I think it is part of the basic design... I will try and look for a pic....

 

Where the circle is but on both sides, I believe they ride on something, make sure that is smooth........again, I have not done the Mag's brakes but this is from doing brakes on countless other vehicles.....

 

I gotcha. The Magnum pads are pretty smooth to start with. I'll try to get a picture of the old pads when I get home (will be late). I don't believe that there would be an issue with those, though. I do grease the clips well before installing the pads and when I took the old pads out there was still grease in the clips.

 

The notches will not be on the pads but on whatever the circled parts ride one, which should be part of the frame the caliper mounts too....I am sorry I can't explain it better.....still early in the day....

Just checked the manual and could not see it!!! Sorry.....

 

This is what the front pads look like on the SXT.Not sure if the same on R/Ts

 

Found some old pics. Maybe this will help to explain.

 

The pistons in the calipers can appear to be different lengths. They move independent of each other. If you try to compress one, the other may pop back out a bit. it happened to me back when I still had my OEM calipers. Not to worry, just use an old pad or piece of wood, they should even up.


Just a reminder.....Not an accuisation........These brakes and rotors need to be broken in properly when new. It's possible that pad transfer is responsible for the "pulsating" feeling and not warped rotors.

Have you tried changing brake pads?....Not just new pads but different new pads.

 

The pistons in the calipers can appear to be different lengths. They move independent of each other. If you try to compress one, the other may pop back out a bit. it happened to me back when I still had my OEM calipers. Not to worry, just use an old pad or piece of wood, they should even up.


Just a reminder.....Not an accuisation........These brakes and rotors need to be broken in properly when new. It's possible that pad transfer is responsible for the "pulsating" feeling and not warped rotors.

Have you tried changing brake pads?....Not just new pads but different new pads.

The first set of pads were the OEMs. I changed those out to EBC Red Stuff. Now I have Posi-Quiet pads. So, I have tried different brands. Part of my logic in buying the Posi-Quiet pads is that they are pre-scorched and do not require a break in period...or so they claim. The vibration would come and go while just cruising along without touching the brake. I know that doesn't necessarily matter, but this much vibration seems to be more than just a break in period issue.

Both the pads and rotors are new as of yesterday, so unless there is a manufacturing issue with those parts, I don't believe that this is a warped rotor issue anymore. Before I changed them, I believe it was a warped rotor, but now I am second guessing that.

I will drive it more before throwing more money at it just to be sure that it is not a break in issue, but as bad is it was shaking the steering wheel and the entire car, I just can't believe that it is the brake setting in.

The vibration that I am feeling is so strong that it would seem more likely that one or both wheels are toeing in and out as I am going do the road. I did check the tie rods when I was doing the brakes and there is no slop in them now.

 

Did you try spinning the rotors with the wheels off?

I remember asking you this way back when. It will help with either eliminating or narrowing the brakes as the cause of your current issues.

 

I did not do that with this last set. I just ordered the new brakes and installed them.

The vibration was present between 35-60mph (the fastest I went). When I slowed down enough (below 35) the vibration faded out. As soon as you accelerated again it came back. It's not something that just appears and disappears. It gradually gets worse and better. If you are braking while it is shaking and you come to a stop, you can feel the car slightly nose diving as if the brakes are pulsing, but you can not feel any pulsing in the brake pedal. The brakes were quiet the entire trip too.

I can jack the car up quick and do the spin check when I get home later.

 

I did not do that with this last set. I just ordered the new brakes and installed them.

The vibration was present between 35-60mph (the fastest I went). When I slowed down enough (below 35) the vibration faded out. As soon as you accelerated again it came back. It's not something that just appears and disappears. It gradually gets worse and better. If you are braking while it is shaking and you come to a stop, you can feel the car slightly nose diving as if the brakes are pulsing, but you can not feel any pulsing in the brake pedal. The brakes were quiet the entire trip too.

I can jack the car up quick and do the spin check when I get home later.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the steering rack. Also......The first time I replaced my inner tie rods, I used Moog parts from Rockauto. They went bad in less than 3,000 miles.....BOTH OF THEM!...WTF!!!
Check your tie rods.....Again!

As James mentions above.....It can't hurt to have your wheels balanced.

 

One thing not mentioned here, but...
Check to see if any of the wheel balancing weights have fallen off.
Or just get the wheels rebalanced. It's cheaper than replacing parts.
It's also possible that the "cords" in one of your tires has broken.
This happened to me once and it threw off the balance of the wheel.
A wheel out of balance could (possibly) cause the symtoms you have described.

 

I was thinking about the wheel weight possibility, but that would be a constant vibration. That is not something that will correct itself while driving at 55mph with the cruise control on. I have had wheels out of balance before so I know it can be bad, but this feels much worse.

As for the broken cord...I stopped rotating the tires once I noticed the tires were wearing on the outside edges. I figured if they are going to wear out I'd rather just wear out 2 tires rather than 4. So, the odd tire wear may also be an issue here. I'm not sure how bad a broken cord can be or just how it will behave, but is it something that can come and go like it is?

The part of all of this that is driving me insane is the fact that it get worse and then it gets better. Every other vehicle issue I have ever had has steadily degraded in such a way that the symptoms were easily repeatable and consistent. This thing is just toying with me until I crack.

 

Well if you have good tires on the back and bad ones on the front. Just switch them and see what happens won't hurt or cost you any thing.

 

This is true. Will have to add this to my "to check/try" list.

 

Stingray, I had a very similar shaking myself last fall. It would shake at highway speeds and when I applied the brakes the shaking increased noticably. I had done all the things you did but it did not solve the problem. I finally decided that the front struts must be the problem. I replaced both front struts, tension struts, sway bar bushings and had it aligned and she has been shake free ever since. Once you try the sway bar bushings, you might consider new front struts. I know it is a little costly but it solved my shake.

 

Stingray, I had a very similar shaking myself last fall. It would shake at highway speeds and when I applied the brakes the shaking increased noticably. I had done all the things you did but it did not solve the problem. I finally decided that the front struts must be the problem. I replaced both front struts, tension stuts, sway bar bushings and had it aligned and she has been shake free ever since. Once you try the sway bar bushings, you might consider new front struts. I know it is a little costly but it solved my shake.

So your shaking would come and go too? The tension struts are a big ? in my mind. I'm really not sure what specifc role they play in the suspension and I know that they have seen better days. I've done the "bounce test" before and the struts act normally doing that. Is that not a sufficient test? The sway bar bushings are something that I haven't even looked at yet.

Any idea how much all of that cost you?

 

My shake didn't really come and go but it definitely was worse some times than others. I had the work done by a local shop and I think the total was $950 parts and labor. Which was really painful because I would have rather lowered her with coilovers...damn.

 

My shake didn't really come and go but it definitely was worse some times than others. I had the work done by a local shop and I think the total was $950 parts and labor. Which was really painful because I would have rather lowered her with coilovers...damn.

Ouch! Any idea how much it would be just for the tension struts?


I've been reading a lot about the tension struts trying to understand just exactly what they do and how they act when they go bad. It seems that most people notice that they go bad when the ball joint end wears out. This results in some sort of rattle or clunk sound. I have neither. However, the bushings on the other end are both torn for sure. The tear is from the bottom to the top half way around. Would this allow the tires to toe in and out going down the road?

In addition to all that has been said, my car has been very difficult to properly align for a long time. I've watched people do the alignment and saw the readings only to bring it right back up on the rack and show out. I just had the alignment done with the tie rod replacement and now the steering wheel is turned slightly to the left and the car goes right (more than just road crowning). I believe that this will be my next step. Since the alignment is not right anyway, I am planning to talk to my mechanic tomorrow about what it would cost to replace the tension struts first.

I see that there are a number of aftermarket suppliers of the tension struts and I read a lot about Mopar redesigning the tension struts for 2009(?). So, what is recommended for a replacement? Go with the Mopar brand or something aftermarket?

 

I paid $45 bucks a piece for my tension struts and easy switch if the ball joint doesn't give you hell. I had to take the rotors and dust shield to get a pickle fork on them and a good wack with the hammer. I just replaced both those and both inner and outers plus struts and shock. cost was around $650+. Doing it myself saved about a $1000 in labor. But i never had the shakes so don't know if this will help but i havn't been over 35 mph yet after the change. (knock on wood)

 

This is where i got mine i didn't have alot of funds to play with and got the Dorman brand. Are they good only time will tell.
RockAuto Parts Catalog

 

Thanks for all of the input from everyone.

I've done some more reading and a little more driving and concluded that the source of the shake is the torn bushings in the tension struts (aka lower control arms). I am planning to purchase the Mevotech brand from Rock Auto. I've never had anything from Mevotech and was wondering if they are any good? Or should I buy revised Mopar brand tension struts?

 

Magnum still has the heebie jeebies, huh ?

 

Don't know if this is the issue or not but what you've described sound a LOT like the "death wobble" MANY jeep owners have reported over the years and from what I understand it is made worse with larger wheels. I do know one person with a jeep that had this and literally almost died from it.

I found this and hope it helps.

Death Wobble and How To Cure it

 

Don't know if this is the issue or not but what you've described sound a LOT like the "death wobble" MANY jeep owners have reported over the years and from what I understand it is made worse with larger wheels. I do know one person with a jeep that had this and literally almost died from it.

I found this and hope it helps.

Death Wobble and How To Cure it

Thanks! That was an informative read and kind of sounds like the path I am taking in diagnosing this vibration.

I took the car back to my mechanic yesterday and talked to him about what has happened since the inner tie rod replacement. He took it for a test drive and put it right up on the lift when he got back. Before he got the car in the air he said that it felt like the lower control arms were bad. The bushings looked even worse in the air. They may have just torn more with the vibration getting worse. He said that the alignment seemed fine, but it feels off to me.

At this point, I am waiting to hear what the price would be for parts and labor to swap out the lower control arms (aka tension struts).

Some additional points from driving on the highway yesterday:
It was shaking scary bad on the way to work. I had it up to 55 mph just to stay out of the way a bit, but it didn't like it at all. On the way home, I jump on the highway within 1 mile from work and had it up to 70 mph with no vibration at all. It ran great up to the first stop light. When I pulled away, it was shaking badly again. I didn't go over 50 mph after that. After about 10-15 miles of shaking, it smoothed out again. Just as I got the shop it started shaking slightly. How is this possible?!

I sure hope the tension struts fix the issue because this thing is driving me nuts!

 

And this too:

Death Wobble !

 

From your last link:

DW can be due to a number of things, lift height is not one of those. Here are a list of causes of DW:

1) Worn out tie-rod or draglink ends
2) Worn out steering stabilizer
3) Warped front rotors
4) Worn out lower control arm or trackbar bushings
5) Loose suspension bolts/components (LCA bolts, trackbar bolts, trackbar bracket)
6) Wheels out of balanced
7) Tire tread uneven
8 Alignment out of whack
9) Improper driveline angles due to improper caster

From my experience:
1) Just replaced inners. Outers are still good.
2) Same as tension strut? I believe this is the problem...for now. Will be the next to be replaced.
3) Just replaced this past weekend.
4) The "actual" lower control arm (not tension strut) looks fine.
5) Bolts are tight. Checked by mechanic when inner tie rods replaced.
6) Wheel balance is fine. Not checked on a machine, but the vibration that I am getting is different that what this would cause.
7) Both front tires have worn towards the outer edges. The driver's side is worse. This may very well be contributing to the problem.
8) I believe that the alignment is still off slightly, but the bad control arms could be affecting this too.
9) Should be checked as part of the alignment...I think. Should be okay.

 

Drive Shaft?????? U joints?

 

Drive Shaft?????? U joints?

I'm by no means an expert but I had a crazy shake from a very slightly warped drive shaft on an old car.

 

I purchased Mevotech's all around on the front of my car. Over 6500 miles and they are still working well. Outer Ties and Tension Struts from Mevotech is good brand and the rubber boot is blue, which is pretty cool in my opinion. good luck

 

Is there any noise associated with the shaking? I had a somewhat similar issue with my old taurus although not quite as bad as what you've been going through. The culprit was a bad front right wheel bearing. My mechanic described it like this: one side of the bearing was good and would roll fine but the other side was "sticky" and would grab causing it to rotate with a jerking motion instead of a grinding manner. I was sure it was a warped rotor and sticking pads but even after a pad\rotor\caliper replacement there was no change. When I turned the wheel by hand I could feel it was nice a smooth through about 270° of rotation but the last 90° was tough even with two hands. With only the one wheel doing this it put the shakes into the car something fierce. But the reason I ask about noise is the bearing made a HORRIBLE noise when it would go over the bad spot.

 

Is there any noise associated with the shaking? I had a somewhat similar issue with my old taurus although not quite as bad as what you've been going through. The culprit was a bad front right wheel bearing. My mechanic described it like this: one side of the bearing was good and would roll fine but the other side was "sticky" and would grab causing it to rotate with a jerking motion instead of a grinding manner. I was sure it was a warped rotor and sticking pads but even after a pad\rotor\caliper replacement there was no change. When I turned the wheel by hand I could feel it was nice a smooth through about 270° of rotation but the last 90° was tough even with two hands. With only the one wheel doing this it put the shakes into the car something fierce. But the reason I ask about noise is the bearing made a HORRIBLE noise when it would go over the bad spot.

I have not noticed any noises associated with the vibration other than the some associated road noise as the wheels wobble. Recently, I did hear some faint rattling at certain times, especially with moderate-significant road bumps. I kind of wrote it off as my paranoia since every little noise or shimmy seems to be a problem right now. However, after seeing how bad the tension strut bushings were on the lift, I'm thinking it wasn't just in my head.

If the wheel bearings are going bad, shouldn't you get some wiggle in the tire? (Get the wheel off the ground. Grab it at 3 and 9 o'clock and wiggle. Repeat at 6 and 12 o'clock.) The wheels were solid when I did my brakes this past weekend.